Chat from the Ways of Knowing Symposia Kickoff

00:30:28    Evidence for Action (E4A):    Thanks for joining us, everyone! A recording of the full event will be posted in the weeks following. If you have any questions for the panel, please feel free to submit them using the Q&A feature

00:36:53    Evidence for Action (E4A):    Please join us in sharing your response to the engagement question. Visit and use code #1676862

00:47:11    Jeana Morrison:    The speakers names are:

00:47:32    Jeana Morrison:    Dr. Alonzo Plough, Chief Science Officer and Vice President of Research-Evaluation-Learning, Robert Wood Johnson Foundation Dr. Amani Nuru-Jeter, Director, Evidence for Action Dr. Thomas A. LaVeist, Dean & Weatherhead Presidential Chair in Health Equity, Tulane University School of Public Health and Tropical Medicine

00:49:29    MeetLab2 .:    YES! We have to be more curious and humble

00:49:31    Evidence for Action (E4A):    IF you have questions for the speakers, please be sure to enter them into the Q&A.

00:55:24    Rachel Post/ TAC/ (she/her/hers):    💯

00:57:03    Angela Mashford-Pringle:    💯

00:57:04    Sheldon Oliver Watts | he, him | RWJF:    We need to continue to apply that pressure, creative, innovative, collective pressure that creates systemic change.

00:57:36    Kevin Craten:    🤎

00:57:46    LaMont Green:    So true, Dr. Amani!!!

00:58:11    Anne McNair (she/her):    👏

01:01:00    MeetLab2 .:    Financial folks also dont want to be the first to try something so as to not look foolish if it doesn’t work. Yet trying and failing (or perceived failure) is so needed for the creativity and innovation we need

01:02:34    Jesse Damon (he/him):    "Practice should inform the academy" 💯

01:03:23    Fleda Mask Jackson:    Is the goal to disrupt ways of knowing within the academy or rather to democratize the ways of knowing that are not solely focused in the univeristy and its faculty. Some of us, have managed to  stand who are not in the academy, per se, albeit diffcult, to  be undeterred in our devotion to the systematic study of authentic ways of knowing and their application to action and change.

01:03:35    LaMont Green:    👏🏿

01:05:01    Isabel Cuervo | she/ ella:    +1

01:05:52    Angela Mashford-Pringle:    change from the inside out has not worked for many made-vulnerable groups. The 3Ps (Power, Privilege & Positionality) will hold us in status quo if it means that settler colonial capitalism continues

01:06:00    Christine Espina:    We must change the “evidence hierarchy” on which evidence-based and research is grounded. We need holistic epistemologies and ontologies.

01:06:51    LaMont Green:    "Health Sciences Industrial Complex" wow!

01:08:04    MeetLab2 .:    Curiosity, not money

01:08:32    Cori Cafaro (she/her), SAMHSA OBHE:    We need to flip the script. Instead of centering academic generated research methods in community settings, we must prioritize community-driven approaches and community-defined evidence.

01:09:13    Angela Mashford-Pringle:    💯

01:09:15    LaMont Green:    "The Master's Tools Will Never Dismantle the Master's House" - Audre Lorde

01:09:17    Rachel Post/ TAC/ (she/her/hers):    @Cori, Yes!

01:09:40    LaMont Green:    I agree, Cori!

01:12:19    LaMont Green:    Audre Lorde’s provocative admonishment, “The master’s tools will never dismantle the master’s house,” is a fitting caution for Black and other scholars of color who seek to use traditional social and behavioral sciences research as a tool to achieve social justice and health equity in Black communities. Invoking Lorde, I use the “master’s tools” as a metaphor for conventional theoretical and methodological approaches and “dismantle the master’s house” as a metaphor for intersectional structures and systems of oppression that created and sustain health inequity in U.S. Black communities. - quoted from Lisa Bowleg

01:12:25    DeJoy, Sharon:    However, birth justice often involves community-based doulas and midwives, which runs counter to the medico-legal complex.

01:12:36    Fleda Mask Jackson:    But it was the community that impacted policy that informed the government and priviate funding.

01:12:47    Ellen Schultz:    Taking knowledge out of the academy - what if a tenure requirement is sharing research with communities who will benefit from it? And making sure they can access (for free), understand, and USE that knowledge?

01:14:56    Angela Mashford-Pringle:    It is merit and promotion is changing in Canada. There are discussions about Indigenous scholars and our community work as it relates to our research, teaching and services.

01:16:37    Jesse Damon (he/him):    The EBP issue is enormous when public and other funders still require community-based orgs and service providers to use EBPs that do not resonate with many communities..

01:18:33    Maryellen Potts:    @Jesse, and educating providers about the limits of the evidence used in EBP is imperative — changing attitudes and the culture of health care evidence generation

01:18:57    LaMont Green:    👏🏿👏🏿👏🏿

01:19:29    Kristin Silvani (she/her):    👏🏻👏🏻

01:19:34    MeetLab2 .:    And Indigenous knowledge isn’t new! Many Native models of health are profoundly powerful, but they’ve been devalued since they aren’t the dominant lens. Highly recommend people to look into two-eyed seeing and how we have to approach holding many truths to actually see the reality.

01:19:46    LaMont Green:    Our focus and resources should be on Building Community Power

01:19:47    Lori Pampilo Harris she/her:    💯

01:21:29    María, CABQ Environmental Health Dept:    👏🏼

01:21:29    Karen Wood, Ramey Wood, "Squirrelwood":    I can't help but share: National Academies "Co-Production of Knowledge" committee workshop information & recordings,...

01:21:48    LaMont Green:    Thank you, Karen!

01:21:51    Cori Cafaro (she/her), SAMHSA OBHE:    SAMHSA grants will fund community-defined evidence practices (CDEPs), but many aren't aware of this. We need to get the word out that there are funding opportunities for community-defined evidence.

01:23:14    Jeana Morrison:    Thank you @karen and @cori for sharing those resources!

01:24:19    Corey Smith, Corewell Health (he/his):    👏

01:24:20    Rachel Post/ TAC/ (she/her/hers):    Thank you so much for that discussion!

01:24:22    MeetLab2 .:    Thank you!

01:24:25    Makayla Dawkins (she/her):    👏🏾

01:24:25    Kristin V:    Thank you!

01:24:26    Tristesse Burton:    Thank you!!!

01:24:28    Vimbai Madzura:    Thank you for this discussion!

01:24:29    Jill Fox (she/her/hers):    👏

01:24:29    LaMont Green:    👏🏿👏🏿❤️

01:24:33    Maressa Dixon:    👏🏾

01:24:45    Fathima Wakeel:    👏🏽

01:25:09    Caitlin Nemeth:    Seven generations

01:26:57    MeetLab2 .:    ^^

01:28:04    Rachel Post/ TAC/ (she/her/hers):    👏🏻

01:34:32    Robin Narruhn:    Yes it would be very risky to share - and so much has been taken from me as a Pasifiki scholar I can bear to share and not be understood or judged

01:34:47    Robin Narruhn:    Can’t bear

01:37:52    Angela Mashford-Pringle:    Shawanda, A. (2020). "Baawaajige: Exploring Dreams as Academic References." Turtle Island Journal of Indigenous Health 1(1). available here:

01:37:55    Karen Wood, Ramey Wood, "Squirrelwood":    [Ramey speaking here, with Karen, I'm her son, actually] "This", this conversation now, "this space",... It is why I feel as fortunate as I have & do with the "Interdisciplinary Learning" M.A. w/University of Alaska-Fairbanks in 2000,... & why it's been "worth respecting the practice", since,... <bow>

01:39:23    Ellen Schultz:    This conversation feels like meaningful progress to me. The real shift: questioning what we know and more importantly, how we know it. Asking those questions is more important than any particular way of answering them.

01:42:05    Cori Cafaro (she/her), SAMHSA OBHE:    Such an important point. The academy's pressure on us to disconnect from our communities and Indigenous ways of knowing is deeply harmful. Reclaiming and reconnecting is healing and radical resistance.

01:42:15    Rachel Post/ TAC/ (she/her/hers):    Yes, please include the 3 writings if that is acceptable.

01:42:22    Evidence for Action (E4A):    Hey Everyone, please enter any questions you have for Melissa on this topic into the Q&A

01:43:51    Angela Mashford-Pringle:    None of has figured out how to change capitalism!

01:43:54    Ellen Schultz:    Yes! Time and space for reflection is so vital to learning. It's an investment in self and knowledge and healing all at once.

01:43:56    Martha Hernandez Martinez:    👏🏽😂

01:48:30    Angela Mashford-Pringle:    *Yes, this is my paper: Mashford-Pringle, A. and A. Shawanda (2023). "Using the Medicine Wheel as theory, conceptual framework, analysis, and evaluation tool in health research." SSM-Qualitative Research in Health 3.

01:49:25    Paige Castro-Reyes (she/her):    Saina ma’åse for your collaborative leadership in this space, Dr. Walls (and Dr. Gone)!!

01:55:55    LaMont Green:    👏🏿👏🏿👏🏿

01:56:08    Rachel Post/ TAC/ (she/her/hers):    👏🏻

01:56:10    Kristin Silvani (she/her):    👏🏻

01:56:14    Angela Mashford-Pringle:    👏🏽

01:56:17    Vimbai Madzura:    Thank you!

01:56:19    Sam Elliott:    👏

01:56:29    Carrie Sullivan (she/hers):    👏❤️

01:56:30    Robin Narruhn:    Kommol tata

01:56:30    Mona Shah:    👏🏽

01:56:42    Fathima Wakeel:    👏🏽

02:02:32    Rahshida Atkins:    collaboration

02:05:36    Melissa Walls:    Here are readings from the last session: More specifically: 1) Steinhauer: Thoughts on an Indigenous Research Methodology;   2) Marlene Brant Castellano: Updating Aboriginal Traditions of Knowledge; and 3)Hindmarch & Hillier: Reimagining global health: from decolonization to indigenization

02:05:46    Melissa Walls:    I’ll also offer up this wonderful reading list curated by Alaska Native scholar Dr. A. Gordon:

02:07:21    LaMont Green:    Thank you, Dr. Walls for these amazing resources 🙏🏿❤️

02:08:09    Ellen Schultz:    Thank you for naming the inherent othering embedded in how we frequently talk about "community."

02:09:56    LaMont Green:    👏🏿

02:11:23    LaMont Green:    😱

02:15:15    Ellen Schultz:    💯

02:15:40    Cori Cafaro (she/her), SAMHSA OBHE:    Why don't we ask ourselves why "rigor" is a term used to denigrate community-defined evidence? Who decides what is rigorous and what is not? It's a power move to devalue the community.

02:18:33    Evidence for Action (E4A):    Please make sure to submit your questions for Claire, Joy, and Charisse in the Q&A

02:20:46    Sheldon Oliver Watts | he, him | RWJF:    "Joy," such an important part of this conversation. Thank you for this levity.

02:24:41    Melissa Walls:    Tribal IRBs may be a great model for changing all IRBs. I sit on one FWA Tribal IRB and work with others, and relationally, CBPR, and care for community are part of what we consider/look for

02:26:51    Paige Castro-Reyes (she/her):    Indigenous Data Sovereignty hybrid conference April 11 for community and institution based researchers:

02:27:40    Angela Mashford-Pringle:    I wish I could go, Paige!!

02:27:47    Karen Wood, Ramey Wood, "Squirrelwood":    & with "decolonizing Measurement & Evaluation" practics, while, I'd love to explore any & more models of @MelissaWalls & other such experiments working "real time"

02:28:59    Paige Castro-Reyes (she/her):    Virtual attendance is an option, @Dr. Mashford-Pringle (also, hello from your CCPH friends! ❤️)

02:29:14    LaMont Green:    👏🏿👏🏿👏🏿

02:29:24    Angela Mashford-Pringle:    Amazing! Thanks, Paige!! Miss talking with you!!

02:30:57    Carlos Delgado (he/him/el):    If there are Local or State Health Departments interested in an easy to use system to support evaluating, monitoring and reporting on their  Community Health Improvement Plans (CHIPs) and Community Health Assessments (CHAs) please let me know. or

02:31:05    LaMont Green:    👏🏿

02:31:06    Robin Narruhn:    I think being expansive means changing policies - and it also means you will be in that community for decades not months or a year...

02:31:06    Monica L. Coleman (she/her) | RWJF:    Blurring the lines between researcher and advocate...I love it!

02:33:10    Monica L. Coleman (she/her) | RWJF:    ❤️

02:33:39    Vimbai Madzura:    👏🏽👏🏽

02:33:59    Jaime Adler I AcademyHealth:    Love bringing knowledge inherently known in the body into this discussion!

02:34:59    Isabel Cuervo | she/ ella:    some social sciences have welcomed dance, spoken word, plays as method and products of research

02:37:22    Evidence for Action (E4A):    Please share your thoughts in response to our engagement question by visiting using code 1676862

02:40:00    Nadia Jones, Pitt, CEACR:    🥰

02:44:22    Monica L. Coleman (she/her) | RWJF:    Thank you, Melody!

02:47:55    Chris Weston (she/her):    A few people have alluded to the idea that the fact that we still have health disparities, means that our methods have not been successful. I think we can not ignore the fact that continued health disparities may also be because of knowledge and finding is not put into action or fully translated into practice.

02:48:25    Angela Mashford-Pringle:    👍🏽

02:49:55    Evidence for Action (E4A):    Hey everyone. Please be sure to share any questions you have using the Q&A feature

02:52:58    LaMont Green:    👏🏿👏🏿👏🏿

02:53:53    Monica L. Coleman (she/her) | RWJF:    YES!

02:59:07    Chris Weston (she/her):    Yes—thank you Melanie! Real solutions to real world problems to improve people’s lives.

03:00:35    Ramey Wood:    Spring of 2000, the Dean of my Graduate School communicated his concern with my choice to respect “this work & practice” via “Interdisciplinary Learning” Master’s work,… He shared his worry, “There would not be any ‘Help Wanted’ adverts” for it,… “Whoops”, eh? I’m in my early-50s, now - We are all well on our way! ✊🙏

03:01:28    Monica L. Coleman (she/her) | RWJF:    ✊🏾 Thanks for paving the way, Ramey.

03:06:20    Fleda Mask Jackson:    I wonder if the typical statistical methods that we use have caught with the complexities of equity-focused research.

03:09:20    Ramey Wood:    @Monica I feel fortunate, perhaps, because others shared with me “the way making”, & I’ve only gotten to work to not disrespect *that*; Thank you, just the same! I hope that translates & conveys! <bow> With care, in collaboration,… “From a certain point onward, there is no turning back. That is the point that must be reached.”—F.Kafka - Onwards!

03:09:59    Monica L. Coleman (she/her) | RWJF:    Fleda - I think we have plenty of methods across qual and quant that, especially when combined, can address the complex inquiries we need to explore. I don't believe our institutions value the types of designs we need to execute to explore equity-focused research.

03:17:49    Robin Narruhn:    This makes so much sense as a Marshallese person, a community activist and a researcher

03:23:34    Evidence for Action (E4A):    Thanks to everyone who joined. We’ll follow up with the recording and more information in the coming weeks. You can keep interacting with the engagement prompts. To stay engaged with Ways of Knowing please sign up for alerts:

03:26:33    Ramey Wood:    “Collective Imagination”, just so happens to be a cohort & conversation, one of, I’m currently active with,… Indeeds! Onwards!

03:27:17    Jaime Adler I AcademyHealth:    Wonderful speakers! Thank you!

03:27:33    Fleda Mask Jackson:    I agree that the combination of qualitative and quantitative methods does address the complex issues we interrogate. This approach has been my life's work--going from the lived experiences to inform the creation of a qualitative measure accompanied by an intervention and a policy approach;   however, I have come to wonder if there are other statstical methods from other disciplines or not yet discovered that might have possibilities for illustrating the  complex pathways for health equity

03:27:56    Jeana Morrison:    This chat was lit! Thanks everyone for your energy and contributions. We appreciate your attendance!

03:28:18    Frazier (she/her):    Grateful for the collective imagining here - thank you !

03:28:20    Evidence for Action (E4A):    Thank you!

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